WTC.Opinions

OPINIONS, ACCOUNTS, STORIES

NEW Global Eye - Mind Games "Thus here we are: two spoiled rich boys made by their fathers' money and connections have now divided the world up between them, and are basically proposing to kill everyone who doesn't agree with them." NEW Limp liberals fail to protect their most profound values "What matters is that the Islamic world should for the first time see the west act even-handedly. It matters that the west admits its past errors and draws a line under much shameful history." What the Afghans need is colonizing - An argument for American imperialism? NEW Global Eye--Speech Impediment " Mr. Bush's desire to lift arms-sales restrictions against U.S.-declared sponsors of international terrorism such as Syria and Iran also seems strangely at odds with eradicating terrorism and evil -- but no doubt the grand strategy behind giving weapons to those who give weapons to those who murder in cold blood is part of the super-duper "secret war" that will remain forever hidden from our delicate sensibilities." Clinton, Starr, and Bin Laden - what price partisan politics? NEW Islamic peoples are Already Victims of US Power - by John Pilger, Zmag "An estimated 200,000 Iraqis died during and in the immediate aftermath of the slaughter known as the Gulf War" NEW Znet: Reaction to the Terror A compilation of columnists A Pure, High Note of Anguish - by novelist Barbara Kingsolver - Thich Nhat Hanh for peace - a talk by a spiritual leader Robert Fisk: This is not a war on terror .. It's a fight against America's enemies - by Robert Fisk NEW HarryBrowne.org has some controversial but well-reasoned opinions - the set of articles here gives a powerful perspective on some of the issues and ethics facing the U.S. "...killing innocent people is terrorism, no matter who does it -freelance terrorists, an international conspiracy, a foreign government, or our government." Media Pundits Advocate Civilian Targets ".. prominent journalists have been advocating military strategies that violate the laws of war and mirror the strategies of terrorists" Food for thought for the Militarists A pragmatic viewpoint written by an Afghani in the U.S. Light in the Darkness In the names of our loved ones,let us ask for more light and love in the world, for they are what, in the end, stand between us and the da rkness. "We cannot fight for human rights using inhuman means." An open letter from the Palestinian Center "When the elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers." Impressionistic Col lage Bush is walking into a trap says the UK paper The Independent "I believe violence will only increase the cycle of violence." The Dalai Lama's L etter to Bush | Don't just read! You know you want to respond. And the media don't provide much of an opportunity... so give US your take on these events at our Forums, where you can discuss all those things you're not supposed to talk about in polite company, from politics and religion to propaganda and whether or not the U.S. should go to war. This page is about everyone's opinions. We'll be collecting editorials and other opinion pieces here (see below) but we also want to post your writing, opinions, cartoons, and columns. If you've got something to say, write it up and send it to us at SUBMISSIONS with 'Subject:SUBMISSIONS . For something more direct, see how other people answer questions like "What is your greatest fear raised by the WTC crisis?" and "What would you like to tell the Hijackers?" Check out all the questions by looking at Reflections on the WTC Disaster, or you can respond to most articles on the site by filling out the form at the bottom of the page. And- we are planning pages for artwork, music, poetry and of course your writing - so please send it in. Suggestions for better use of this site are welcome! Please submit any links or material to LINKS@global-dialog.org using the Subject: LINKS or if you wish to volunteer to help put this material up, use the Subject:Volunteer

Participant Comments follow below

"We as informed individuals need to organize cooperatively against an ethic of materialism and technology without consciousness. The inventions cannot outpace the cosmic forces. " Vince vencinias@peoplepc.com I agree with Vince here. I admit that I am dependent upon technology and I though I try not to be dependent upon material possessions for my happiness and wellbeing-I nevertheless am dependent upon them. I like you "cause and effect" metaphor of the cosmos. And perhaps the problem here is that there is so often a delay in the feed-back which guides our technology and use of natural materials. For example, the fishing industry had to hit an all time low before they recognized that it was to their benefit to "self regulate" the fishing industry and limit certain types of mass fishing so that fish would have a chance to spawn and regenerate. Now, you may be against eating any fish but the same principle has been true in the foresting industry etc. Now when we consider the impact of technology on the environment it becomes tricky. We as consumers don't often see the impact of our consumption. For example, the impact of automobiles on the environment is still debated in some circles. I think we as a people have to make a big jump in that we are willing to use informed predictions of potential hazards to temper our use. Where this comes from is not clear. Sometimes it seems that just waiting long enough is the solution (e.g. electric cars are being developed to replace the pollution pumpers on the road now). However, in other cases our logic dictates that we should avoid use of something like natural gases/oils for transportation when we could use renewable resources (like plant-based alcohols, solar). Unfortunately, it would take a dramatic consumer response to push the industry and government in this direction. Finally, of course the impact of the large consumption of material goods and use of technology in the US on the planet ecology and people of other countries is frightening. I think however to get the massive sometimes passive public of the US to consider this we have to give them feed-back -hopefully in the form of education and information. But the reality is that such change rarely happens until it affects the pocket-books of the rich and many lives of the poor. ---Heather Heather pyrrha01@yahoo.com 11/02/01 10:25:28 MST

NEW AGE We can no longer sit around in our comfortable non realistic bubble called the United States of America. Our reality is no longer one that can be lived by not paying attention to effects of our foreign policy. The U.S.A. has supported the Taliban before and trained the pilots that hit the WTC. Actions come full circle through the law of the universe that is cause and effect. The U.S. is feeling the repercussions of meddling in another parts of the world. We as Americans are being fed information that tells us we are united and this war is for freedom. The goal is for the U.S. to have exclusive world power and control the pieces of the world jigsaw puzzle. We as informed individuals need to organize cooperatively against an ethic of materialism and technology without consciousness. The inventions cannot outpace the cosmic forces. Vince vencinias@peoplepc.com 10/27/01 20:59:39 MDT

A Systemic Analysis of International Terrorism by Fritjof Capra The horrific terrorist attacks against the United States on September 11 mark the end of an era - the end of over 200 years of invulnerability on our continent. We had heard fundamentalist rhetoric about "striking at the heart of America" for years, but we took it as empty threats. We did not recognize the emergence of a new weapon on the international stage against which we were defenseless the despair-driven, desperate suicide bomber.(1) This new form of international terrorism exposes the fantasy of a national shield against ballistic missiles. Missile defense is of no use whatsoever when terrorists can turn commercial planes into missiles and their fuel tanks into bombs with the help of simple box cutters. A SYSTEMIC PERSPECTIVE There is no simple defense against international terrorism, because we live in a complex, globally interconnected world in which linear chains of cause and effect do not exist. To understand this world, we need to think systemically in terms of relationships, connectedness, and context. Understanding international terrorism from a systemic perspective means understanding that its very nature derives from a series of political, economic, and technological problems that are all interconnected. This terrorism is not "mindless," and it is not directed against our "freedom and democracy," as our government wants us to believe. Terrorism is always a weapon of the politically frustrated and desperate who feel that they are unable to voice their grievances through conventional political processes. In order to combat them effectively, we need to clearly understand the terrorists' frustration.(2) This does not mean that we should shrink from capturing the terrorists and bringing them to justice. Their crimes are abhorrent beyond words. But we must learn to distinguish between their criminal methods and fundamentalist ideologies on the one hand, and the often legitimate grievances that drive them into committing such desperate and horrific acts on the other. We cannot fight terrorists effectively without understanding them. We shall see in particular that much of Islamic fundamentalism is related to the role of the United States in the Middle East and that extremist Islamic movements often arise in direct response to American policies. Of course, the U.S. is not the only power to blame. There is the legacy of European colonialism, and there are other factors. Yet American policies have contributed significantly to the recent rise of fundamentalist Islamic terrorism.(3) INAPPROPRIATENESS OF MILITARY ACTIONS Understandably, the first reaction to the horrendous attacks on the United States is the desire to "strike back." But responding to terrorism with violence, rather than dealing with the context from which it emerged, will continue to create more violence. We must recognize that military actions will not succeed in eliminating the rise of militant Islamic movements. On the contrary, they will result in the deaths of innocent Muslim civilians that will fuel anti-American hatred. Retaliatory strikes against suspected terrorist targets trigger further retaliation from terrorists and thus escalate the cycle of violence, as Israel's experience has shown. Surgical strikes make sense only when there are military targets with heavy equipment, which the terrorist networks do not have. Moreover, such strikes are often based on faulty intelligence, which further exacerbates their negative effects.(4) Since this terrorism is international, the response has to be international as well. The goals of the coalitions and cooperation within the international community cannot be limited to identifying and capturing the terrorists, as they currently are, but must be extended to addressing the underlying systemic problems. This will be the only way to marginalize the terrorists and strengthen our security in the long run. AMERICA'S IMAGE IN THE WORLD The terrorism we are concerned with is directed against the United States, and hence the attempt to understand its roots has to begin with the understanding of America's image in the world. This image is multi-faceted. It includes many positive aspects of our society such as individual liberty, cultural diversity, and economic opportunity as well as the great enthusiasm for American technology, fashion, sports, and entertainment, especially among the world's youth. On the other hand, the United States is seen by many as the driving force of a global capitalism that is supported by military force and is often socially unjust and environmentally destructive. Indeed, the buildings attacked by the terrorists on September 11 were proud symbols of American economic power and military might. U.S. ROLE IN THE MIDDLE EAST To understand the political context of the recent terrorist attacks, we need to look specifically at the U.S. role in the Middle East. The common view in this country is that we have assumed the role of peacemakers in the region. In other parts of the world, and especially in the Muslim world, the view is quite different. There is widespread anti-American sentiment, based on several legitimate concerns.(5) They include resentment against our uncritical support for the Israeli occupation of Arab land, the dispossession of Palestinians and for state-sponsored assassinations; our support of repressive Arab governments, in particular that of Saudi Arabia; ten years of sanctions and military attacks against Iraq, which have killed half a million children; our massive military presence in the region, as well as our role as the largest supplier of arms in the Middle East. These legitimate grievances have contributed to the rise of several radical Islamic movements, including Hamas and al Qaeda, the terrorist network of Osama bin Laden. Now, why do we support repressive regimes, ignore UN resolutions, and promote violence in the Middle East? The answer, in one word, is "oil." In the view of our government, the access to Persian Gulf oil is essential to the security of the United States. In the Gulf region, like in many areas in the rest of the world, our policies are primarily resource-oriented, designed to support our wasteful economy. Thus, the U.S. role in the Middle East and its contribution to the rise of radical Islamic movements are inextricably linked to our misguided energy policies. To assure American access to natural resources around the world, the U.S. government continually tries to "stabilize" various regions and, in doing so, has often supported repressive regimes. This has included support to governments that have engaged in widespread terrorism against their own populations.(6) Ironically, the U.S. has at times supported hard-line Islamic movements. Indeed, some of the most notorious Islamic terrorists today, including many followers of Osama bin Laden, were originally trained by the CIA.(7) Our support of repressive governments has helped to encourage underground, often violent, opposition, and the fact that we ourselves have sponsored terrorist attacks undercuts our credibility in the fight against terrorism. RELATIONSHIP WITH SAUDI ARABIA To understand the motivation of Osama bin Laden and other Islamic extremists, we need to pay special attention to the U.S. relationship with Saudi Arabia. This relationship is based on an extraordinary bargain, according to which Saudi Arabia grants the U.S. unlimited and perpetual access to its oil fields (which contain 25% of the world's known oil reserves!) in exchange for protection of the Saudi Royal family against its enemies, both external and internal. This bargain has shaped American foreign and military policy for almost half a century, during which we have protected a totalitarian regime in Saudi Arabia that blatantly disregards basic human rights and tramples democracy.(8) The main purpose of the Gulf war in 1991, originally code-named "Desert Shield," was not to drive Iraq out of Kuwait, but to protect Saudi Arabia from a possible attack and to guarantee U.S. access to the Saudi oil fields. Since then, the U.S. has maintained and steadily expanded its military presence in the Gulf. In addition we also defend the Saudi regime against its internal enemies. The Saudi Arabian National Guard, which protects the royal family, is almost entirely armed, trained, and managed by the United States.(9) The goal of Osama bin Laden's terrorist network al Qaeda is to drive the U.S. out of the Gulf region and to replace the corrupt Saudi regime by what they consider an "authentic" Islamic state. Such a state would be modeled after that of the fundamentalist Taliban in Afghanistan, which is many times more repressive than the current Saudi regime. Nevertheless, as long as we continue to support the totalitarian system in Saudi Arabia, our support will fuel anti-American hatred. CAUSES OF TERRORIST ATTACKS We can now summarize the multiple causes of the recent terrorist attacks against the United States. At the core lies the U.S. military presence in the Persian Gulf and our support of the repressive Saudi regime. This presence, in turn, is a consequence of our dependence on Saudi oil, due to many years of misguided energy policies. Bin Laden's terrorist network has declared an anti-American jihad, a religious war, and finds it easy to recruit volunteers among Muslims who feel frustrated and helpless about other aspects of the U.S. role in the Middle East. These aspects include, in particular, the U.S. support of the Israeli occupation of Arab land and the dispossession of Palestinians; Muslim casualties of U.S.-supported military actions and assassinations, and especially the death of large numbers of civilians in Iraq. At a deeper level, the extremists often receive sympathy from Islamic fundamentalists who are struggling to preserve their cultural identity in the face of U.S.-led economic globalization. A MULTI-FACETED ANTI-TERRORIST STRATEGY The systemic understanding of the background of extremist Islamic terrorism calls for a multi-faceted anti-terrorist strategy. The immediate goal, obviously, is to identify and capture the perpetrators and supporters of the terrorist attacks against the United States, and to bring them to justice before an international court. Since the extension and scope of this terrorism is international, it requires sustained international police work, based on extensive and widespread cooperation among the international community. This means, in turn, that the United States will have to reverse its recent isolationist stance and become a responsible member of the international community, supporting its conventions, treaties, and institutions. Cooperation with the United Nations and other multilateral agencies will be vital to increase our own strength and security.(10) In this international collaboration, it will be especially important to enlist the help of Islamic states in portraying the extremists as enemies of Islam, because no true Muslim would take thousands of innocent lives in such reprehensible acts.(11) At the same time, our leaders need to help counteract American religious stereotypes. We need to make it clear that the vast majority of the world's Muslims opposes terrorism and religious intolerance.(12) POLICY SHIFTS In the long run, the United States will be able to reduce the terrorist threats only if it adopts a series of policy shifts to deal with the legitimate grievances that often underlie the illegitimate terrorist acts. Systemic thinking means shifting our focus from attempting to crush terrorist movements to pursuing policies that discourage their emergence. The following two policy shifts would go a long way toward increasing our national security. 1. A reassessment of U.S. policy in the Persian Gulf, including pressure on the Saudi regime to move toward democratization and the provision of basic human rights. 2. Demanding an end to Israel's illegal occupation of Arab land, in particular of East Jerusalem and other Palestinian territories. This would bring the United States in line with international law, UN Security Council resolutions, and with the views of virtually the entire international community. In the words of the Israeli novelist and peace activist Amos Oz, With or without Islamic fundamentalism, with or without Arab terrorism, there is no justification whatsoever for the lasting occupation and suppression of the Palestinian people by Israel. We have no right to deny Palestinians their natural right to self-determination.(13) CHANGE OF ENERGY POLICY In order to carry out these shifts of U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East, it will be crucial to sever our dependence on Saudi oil. A shift of energy policy from fossil fuels to renewable energy sources and conservation is not only imperative for moving toward ecological sustainability, but must also be seen as vital to our national security. Such a shift is absolutely feasible with technologies that are available today.(14) For example, the gradual replacement of the U.S. car fleet with hydrogen-powered hybrid-electric cars would eventually save all the oil OPEC now sells and, in addition, would reduce America's CO2 emissions by about two thirds! And, by the way, a hydrogen-fueled airplane could not be used as a bomb, because the hydrogen would escape rapidly on impact instead of exploding. The hydrogen economy will eventually be realized, because it features superior technologies. However, this development could be accelerated dramatically with massive investments by the federal government. Such investments would not only bring tremendous environmental and health benefits, but would also be an effective long-term measure against international terrorism. Posy 10/26/01 14:48:21 MDT

A voice from a Syrian who had lived in North America some years back. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi Mar & Dave, Here is some of my thoughts, you can share it with whoever you want (I not mean like Taty): Here people sympathy with the family of the 11th Sept. victims in NY. We are angry that US did not present a proof that Bin did it and did the cowboy thing of just kicking ass / hang him on the spot. There are several things that is getting Arab/Muslims angry at US: - The double standards that US has regarding human life. Not all human beings are equal. - The pressure that US put on all the newspapers / TV's to report only what is "acceptable" by US. - All our Friday prayers speeches are approved by security in line with US interest/censorship. So Friday prayer speech now is just a spokesman for the Pentacoon. - Nobody knows exactly who is the enemi (Islaaaam or Araaabs or Afagaaans or Sauuudis or ..........) but we are assured that the enemi is none of the above, so WHO is it? My opinions that, Buush is very happy with the current events and his friends in the Oil and Araaams industries are cheering him. He made people busy with this, so nobody dares to complain about the economy, environment, personal freeeedom and freeedom of speeech, because for Gods sake we are at waar. A waaar that we don't know when it will end and how. I believe George Orwell predicted the current US government in his book 1984. The eneemy is unknown, the waar is unlimited, you believe what we tell you, you are in constant feaaar of the eneemy, and we are told that waaar is accomplishing the goal of making us feel more safe. I am with my religious and humanity believes totally against what happened on 111 slept. There is no justification for it. The only thing is when you want to treat a disease or an earth quake, you go search for the cause of it or how to avoid it, you don't go and kill every infected person or make the earth flat with cement. I am not saying that US should listen to terrrrrorist, but should be open to the world who has been fighting terrrrosim for years and to try to resolve some of the current issues were US is very biased in their policies like the Isr/Palas confliccct. It has been very hard to sort out my opinion since I am an Arb & Amer. Anyway we are planning to work here for a couple of years and see how things develop. Take care Ammar Posy 10/26/01 14:47:19 MDT

Thank you Heather. I really loved what you posted as well. Here is something I got from a lovely friend of mine, Michael C, which is kinda about the same thing. People helping other people... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Well, there are wonderful people out there... Sometimes needs pointing out...like this email I got...from a couple of different sources, one of which is former air traffic controllers, many of whom still work in the industry...can't vouch for its validity, could be the stuff of urban legend...but at least they got the time zone correct for Newfoundland, and Delta 15 does fly from Frankfurt to Atlanta...Its a nice sentiment, in any case... ------- A Pilot's Eye View of Gander, Canada on 11 Sep 2001 We were about 5 hours out of Frankfurt flying over the North Atlantic and I was in my crew rest seat taking my scheduled rest break. All of a sudden the curtains parted violently and I was told to go to the cockpit, right now, to see the captain. As soon as I got there I noticed that the crew had one of those "All Business" looks on their faces. The captain handed me a printed message. I quickly read the message and realized the importance of it. The message was from Atlanta, addressed to our flight, and simply said, "All airways over the Continental US are closed. Land ASAP at the nearest airport, advise your destination." Now, when a dispatcher tells you to land immediately without suggesting which airport, one can assume that the dispatcher has reluctantly given up control of the flight to the captain. We knew it was a serious situation and we needed to find terra firma quickly. It was quickly decided that the nearest airport was 400 miles away, behind our right shoulder, in Gander, on the island of Newfoundland. A quick request was made to the Canadian traffic controller and a right turn, directly to Gander, was approved immediately. We found out later why there was no hesitation by the Canadian controller approving our request. We, the in-flight crew, were told to get the airplane ready for an immediate landing. While this was going on another message arrived from Atlanta telling us about some terrorist activity in the New York area. We briefed the in-flight crew about going to Gander and we went about our business 'closing down' the airplane for a landing. A few minutes later I went back to the cockpit to find out that some airplanes had been hijacked and were being flown into buildings all over the US. We decided to make an announcement and LIE to the passengers for the time being. We told them that an instrument problem had arisen on the airplane and that we needed to land at Gander, to have it checked. We promised to give more information after landing in Gander. There were many unhappy passengers but that is par for the course. We landed in Gander about 40 minutes after the start of this episode. There were already about 20 other airplanes on the ground from all over the world. After we parked on the ramp the captain made the following announcement. "Ladies and gentlemen, you must be wondering if all these airplanes around us have the same instrument problem as we have. But the reality is that we are here for a good reason." Then he went on to explain the little bit we knew about the situation in the US. There were loud gasps and stares of disbelief. Local time at Gander was 12:30 pm. (11:00 AM EST). Gander control told us to stay put. No one was allowed to get off the aircraft. No one on the ground was allowed to come near the aircraft. Only a car from the airport police would come around once in a while, look us over and go on to the next airplane. In the next hour or so all the airways over the North Atlantic were vacated and Gander alone ended up with 53 airplanes from all over the world, out of which 27 were flying US flags. We were told that each and every plane was to be offloaded, one at a time, with the foreign carriers given the priority. We were No.14 in the US category. We were further told that we would be given a tentative time to deplane at 6 pm. Meanwhile bits of news started to come in over the aircraft radio and for the first time we learned that airplanes were flown into the World Trade Center in New York and into the Pentagon in DC. People were trying to use their cell phones but were unable to connect due to a different cell system in Canada. Some did get through but were only able to get to the Canadian operator who would tell them that the lines to the US were either blocked or jammed and to try again. Some time late in the evening the news filtered to us that the World Trade Center buildings had collapsed and that a fourth hijacking had resulted in a crash. Now the passengers were totally bewildered and emotionally exhausted but stayed calm as we kept reminding them to look around to see that we were not the only ones in this predicament. There were 52 other planes with people on them in the same situation. We also told them that the Canadian Government was in charge and we were at their mercy. True to their word, at 6 PM, Gander airport told us that our turn to deplane would come at 11 AM, the next morning. That took the last wind out of the passengers and they simply resigned and accepted this news without much noise and really started to get into a mode of spending the night on the airplane. Gander had promised us any and all medical attention if needed; medicine, water, and lavatory servicing. And they were true to their word. Fortunately we had no medical situation during the night. We did have a young lady who was 33 weeks into her pregnancy. We took REALLY good care of her. The night passed without any further complications on our airplane despite the uncomfortable sleeping arrangements. About 10:30 on the morning of the 12th we were told to get ready to leave the aircraft. A convoy of school buses showed up at the side of the airplane, the stairway was hooked up and the passengers were taken to the terminal for "processing". We, the crew, were taken to the same terminal but were told to go to a different section, where we were processed through Immigration and customs and then had to register with the Red Cross. After that we were isolated from our passengers and were taken in a caravan of vans to a very small hotel in the town of Gander. We had no idea where our passengers were going. The town of Gander has a population of 10,400 people. Red Cross told us that they were going to process about 10,500 passengers from all the airplanes that were forced into Gander. We were told to just relax at the hotel and wait for a call to go back to the airport, but not to expect that call for a while. We found out the total scope of the terror back home only after getting to our hotel and turning on the TV, 24 hours after it all started. Meanwhile we enjoyed ourselves going around town discovering things and enjoying the hospitality. The people were so friendly and they just knew that we were the "Plane people". We all had a great time until we got that call, 2 days later, on the 14th at 7AM. We made it to the airport by 8:30AM and left for Atlanta at 12:30 PM arriving in Atlanta at about 4:30PM. But that's not what I wanted to tell you. What passengers told us was so uplifting and incredible and the timing couldn't have been better. We found out that Gander and the surrounding small communities, within a 75 Kilometer radius, had closed all the high schools, meeting halls, lodges, and any other large gathering places. They converted all these facilities to a mass lodging area. Some had cots set up, some had mats with sleeping bags and pillows set up. ALL the high school students HAD to volunteer taking care of the "GUESTS". Our 218 passengers ended up in a town called Lewisporte, about 45 Kilometers from Gander. There they were put in a high school. If any women wanted to be in a women only facility, that was arranged. Families were kept together. All the elderly passengers were given no choice and were taken to private homes. Remember that young pregnant lady, she was put up in a private home right across the street from a 24 hour Urgent Care type facility. There were DDS on call and they had both male and female nurses available and stayed with the crowd for the duration. Phone calls and emails to US and Europe were available for every one once a day. During the days the passengers were given a choice of "Excursion" trips. Some people went on boat cruises of the lakes and harbors. Some went to see the local forests. Local bakeries stayed open to make fresh bread for the guests. Food was prepared by all the residents and brought to the school for those who elected to stay put. Others were driven to the eatery of their choice and fed. They were given tokens to go to the local Laundromat to wash their clothes, since their luggage was still on the aircraft. In other words every single need was met for those unfortunate travelers. Passengers were crying while telling us these stories. After all that, they were delivered to the airport right on time and without a single one missing or late. All because the local Red Cross had all the information about the goings on back at Gander and knew which group needed to leave for the airport at what time. Absolutely incredible. When passengers came on board, it was like they had been on a cruise. Everybody knew everybody else by their name. They were swapping stories of their stay, impressing each other with who had the better time. It was mind boggling. Our flight back to Atlanta looked like a party flight. We simply stayed out of their way. The passengers had totally bonded and they were calling each other by their first names, exchanging phone numbers, addresses, and email addresses. And then a strange thing happened. One of our business class passengers approached me and asked if he could speak over the PA to his fellow passengers. We never, never, allow that. But something told me to get out of his way. I said "of course". The gentleman picked up the PA and reminded everyone about what they had just gone through in the last few days. He reminded them of the hospitality they had received at the hands of total strangers. He further stated that he would like to do something in return for the good folks of the town of Lewisporte. He said he was going to set up a Trust Fund under the name of DELTA 15 (our flight number). The purpose of the trust fund is to provide a scholarship for high school student(s) of Lewisporte to help them go to college. He asked for donations of any amount from his fellow travelers. When the paper with donations got back to us with the amounts, names, phone numbers and addresses, it totaled to $14.5K or about $20K Canadian. The gentleman who started all this turned out to be an MD from Virginia. He promised to match the donations and to start the administrative work on the scholarship. He also said that he would forward this proposal to Delta Corporate and ask them to donate as well. Why, all of this? Just because some people in far away places were kind to some strangers, who happened to literally drop in among them? WHY NOT? Posy 10/24/01 16:09:06 MDT

Hello Posy, I like the post you put under Opinions. It seems that thinking about anything long-enough and with enough knowledge(information) base brings one to the "neutral" or middle stance. There is some interesting dialogue on what defines the "middle" stance in the Utne Cafe. I wanted to point you guys to this letter I found when roaming around on the art project www.whyproject.org. (which has some interesting art post by the way). Anyhow, I found a pointer to an letter posted by "Wired" which was written by a Pakistani student who worked in the WTC and was there September 11th. He doesn't describe the horrible things he saw but instead describes some beautiful cooperation of humans in a dire situation. It is inspiring. http://www.e46fanatics.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=45274&t=45274 --Heather Heather pyrrha01@yahoo.com 10/23/01 15:17:27 MDT

OK, fellow dialogist I don't mean to divert from peaceful discussions of the universe and all but check out these links. I remembered an article on the "free trade" of satallite images and also I have friends who do image processing of sorts that say "big brother" is around the corner if only the AI folks could get their programs to identify "Joe Blow" walking at the base of the transamerican building (i.e. the big pyramid shaped building in the image link I'll put below). Anyhow, they now have 10 centimeter resolution (i.e. you could get a human sitting still but probably would have problems with time space trade-offs). Anyhow, check it out first you will see one of the holy cities of Afghanistan (Mecca) then you will see Chechnya before the war. Then you will see Chechnya after the war. Notice the missing buildings. (I never really understood war frankly but then I'm passive in this regard). Then you will see San Francisco!! And this ain't the 10cm goods it is the lower resolutions shots. Believe me I'm not against the technology because I've been out in a van at midnight when there is no moon and geeze that GPS info comes in real handy!! http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0009/25ikonos/06.html http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0009/25ikonos/09.html http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0009/25ikonos/10.html http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0009/25ikonos/01.html pyrrha01 pyrrha01@yahoo.com 10/22/01 20:15:05 MDT

hi... me again... at the start of the last one I meant to say I'm 'not' sure... anyone here is another opinion: The world doesn't have to choose between the Taliban and the US government. All the beauty of the world-literature, music, art-lies between these two fundamentalist poles. Arundhati Roy Appeared in Outlook... Oct 18 ...The International Coalition Against Terror is largely a cabal of the richest countries in the world. Between them, they manufacture and sell almost all of the world's weapons, they possess the largest stockpile of weapons of mass destruction-chemical, biological and nuclear. They have fought the most wars, account for most of the genocide, subjection, ethnic cleansing and human rights violations in modern history, and have sponsored, armed, and financed untold numbers of dictators and despots. Between them, they have worshipped, almost deified, the cult of violence and war. For all its appalling sins, the Taliban just isn't in the same league. The Taliban was compounded in the crumbling crucible of rubble, heroin, and landmines in the backwash of the Cold War. Its oldest leaders are in their early 40s. Many of them are disfigured and handicapped, missing an eye, an arm or a leg. They grew up in a society scarred and devastated by war. Between the Soviet Union and America, over 20 years, about $45 billion worth of arms and ammunition was poured into Afghanistan. The latest weaponry was the only shard of modernity to intrude upon a thoroughly medieval society. Young boys-many of them orphans-who grew up in those times, had guns for toys, never knew the security and comfort of family life, never experienced the company of women. Now, as adults and rulers, the Taliban beat, stone, rape, and brutalise women; they don't seem to know what else to do with them. Years of war have stripped them of gentleness, inured them to kindness and human compassion. They dance to the percussive rhythms of bombs raining down around them. Now they've turned their monstrosity on their own people. With all due respect to President Bush, the people of the world do not have to choose between the Taliban and the US government. All the beauty of human civilization-our art, our music, our literature-lies beyond these two fundamentalist, ideological poles. There is as little chance that the people of the world can all become middle-class consumers as there is that they'll all embrace any one particular religion. The issue is not about Good vs Evil or Islam vs Christianity as much as it is about space. About how to accommodate diversity, how to contain the impulse towards hegemony-every kind of hegemony, economic, military, linguistic, religious, and cultural. Any ecologist will tell you how dangerous and fragile a monoculture is. A hegemonic world is like having a government without a healthy opposition. It becomes a kind of dictatorship. It's like putting a plastic bag over the world, and preventing it from breathing. Eventually, it will be torn open. One and a half million Afghan people lost their lives in the 20 years of conflict that preceded this new war. Afghanistan was reduced to rubble, and now, the rubble is being pounded into finer dust. By the second day of the air strikes, US pilots were returning to their bases without dropping their assigned payload of bombs. As one pilot put it, Afghanistan is "not a target-rich environment". At a press briefing at the Pentagon, Donald Rumsfeld, US defense secretary, was asked if America had run out of targets. "First we're going to re-hit targets," he said, "and second, we're not running out of targets, Afghanistan is..." This was greeted with gales of laughter in the Briefing Room... Posy 10/21/01 16:33:06 MDT

Hi Val and all... I am sure where this should go. It seems like something that should have its own page maybe... [604] Sirius Thoughts on the War Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 21:19:24 -0400 from Mondo 2000 co-founder R.U. Sirius, here's a clever little diddy i think a lot of us can relate to. --------- Ignore the War A Personal Declaration of Deep Neutrality by R. U. Sirius Dear god, if there is a god, please help me, if you can help me." Ganesh Baba An 85 year-old Buddhist monk had been living in a cave since 1939, after spirits of the mountain appeared to him in a dream and asked him to become the mountains protector. In the course of our conversation, the monk asked me, Who is this Chairman Mao you keep mentioning? Bill Porter, from Road To Heaven, Encounters with Chinese Hermits I feel sort-of fortunate that I happen to be studying Taoist texts this fall, for a book Im writing. When human political affairs become so complex and ugly that an honest, thinking, feeling person might not easily find her way to a solid ethical stance, or might not wish to choose sides, even when his tribes native land is under attack and/or attacking, one could do worse than seek a still place within from which to contemplate the eternal and ever-chaotic flow. And so, perhaps unduly influenced by ancient Chinese hermits, I declare myself neutral, stuck-in-neutral, neutered even. Hey, this is no time to front call it what you will. Dont get me wrong. I prefer our 21st Century global capitalism that at least maintains some allegiance to those grand enlightenment themes like choice, democracy, pluralism, separation of church and state, the right to be irreverent or ironic, and the rights of women to sing, speak, laugh, look outside, and wear skimpy clothes, its all preferable to an ancient philosophy that seeks to dictate absolute conformity to a particular interpretation of a singular religion. I made that choice clear years ago by living in Northern California instead of the Bible Belt. And we can argue about the causes of this conflict until were red, white and blue in the face. Some say its blowback for US militarism and imperial arrogance. Some say Bin Laden and his ilk are fundamentalist headcases bent on killing all infidels, and thats a mighty big chunk of humanity. But as the Peppermint Twins wisely advised, Stop! Youre both right! I subscribe to the critique of US militarism and imperial arrogance, and to the fear of fundamentalists bent on killing all infidels, particularly ones who also happen to believe they go to a real sexy heaven (sexiness on earth being virtually verboten) when they die a martyr. I also subscribe to the claim made by some liberal war supporters that the critique of US arrogance has little immediate relevance to the question of how to contend with the situation at hand. In fact, I have enough on the one hand but on the other hand thoughts rattling around my brain to make my head spin like Linda Blair in the Exorcist. Talking about my deep confusion may be self-indulgent, but I suspect that there are many like me; not ready to hail the war, and not ready to march in protest either. Yes, I know, in my lifetime (born 1952) the United States of America has committed acts of war involving either launching an invasion, sending in shooting troops, dropping or planting bombs, or assassinating national leaders in nineteen nations, and has committed violence by proxy in many more. I know that we are the only nation on earth with military bases all over the globe. I know that our military spends more money than the rest of the G7 countries combined and twenty times as much as the eight countries we call rogue states. And I know that we sell most of the armaments used by most of the conflicting parties engaging in various slaughters the world over. Even if mainstream political analysts can justify most of these actions, one at a time, when this information is taken in as a whole, they ought to at least admit that we sure stand out among the nations of the world. Surely this burden of empire schtick is a bit much! In the past, Ive railed against the smugness of ordinary Americans who with minimal attention stood in quiet support as our government lobbed the odd occasional bomb into foreign lands with all the casualness of Jenna Jameson giving blow jobs. I warned that smug Americans might some day get their comeuppance. But I wasnt expecting a sort of Spanish Inquisition! Paradigm Shock Indeed, like many dissident Americans who believe(d) that the biggest current political problems were global warming, excess global corporate power, and the police stateist machinations of the war on drugs, Im dealing with total paradigm shock. These issues continue to be important, and the US Government is not my friend in their regard. But theres no getting around it. The forces that are almost certainly behind the 9/11 brutality have expressed some serious interest in spreading a demented fascist fundamentalist rule as far and wide as possible, by any means necessary. Many among us have mocked those whove perceived this sort of threat in the past as victims of an unseemly paranoia that attacks only unenlightened control freaks. But those Bin Laden speeches and interview and TV broadcasts are real. You didnt hallucinate this one, acid boy. This guy has declared war on every American, Jew, Pagan and every infidel! Thats everybody who doesnt agree with him as big a portion of the human population as the non-Aryans our German buddies wanted to off or enslave back in the day. Of course, when I heard this quote from Mr. Laden a few years ago, it seemed abstract. Now theres a fucking hole in the middle of New York City. This aint just some Jasper coming down off a three day speed binge, deciding he should rule the world, and then taking his frustrations with his powerlessness out on his wife and kids. These guys are serious, tactically adept, and reasonably well-equipped. They are clearly equally happy to kill pacifists, corporate executives, soccer moms, goths, anti-globalization activists, skinheads, Sally Fields, dogs, cats, Arab Americans, and firemen. There are those who will still insist that the main motivation of these terrorist fighters is their frustration with US Military presence and aggressiveness in the Islamic region, compounded by US financial and political support for Israel, and Israels treatment of the Palestinians. According to this view, if we bring our imperial troops and dollars back home, theyll leave us alone. Maybe. Wanna bet? Consider the terms of the wager. Consider this: Hitlers Nazis were at least partly the product of the cruel treatment imposed on Germany by the imperial, arrogant powers that defeated them in World War I. He had some legitimate gripes. Also, as with Bin Laden and his ilk now, many wise Western thinkers understood how our business-as-usual created and supported Hitler. We had some major responsibility there. But when push came to shove, Hitler still had to be stopped. Now, consider the rule of the Taliban. Homosexuality is a capital offense. Television and video technologies are confiscated and burned. (Eat your heart out, Jerry Mander!) Women are punished for showing any skin, even by accident. Photographs and drawings of people or animals are banned. Clapping is forbidden. Non-religious music is illegal. Unwed couples who have sex are whipped (Of course, this also happens frequently in San Francisco, but thats consensual.) No doubt, US allies Saudi Arabia impose similarly weird restraints based on the same interpretation of Islamic law. Indeed, we can find enough contradictions, counter-examples, and Byzantine Western double-dealings in this situation to make our heads spin like Linda Blair again and maybe even puke green. Still, the bottom line is that the terrorist cells being clumsily pursued by American and British bombs and troops hate US Imperialism and they hate fun. Id throw over the imperialism but Ill insist on keeping whatever fun we can still manage to afford. Weve arrived at a peculiar point in history where we might be seeing a war between the haves and the have-nots, in which the haves more or less believe in humanist values (massive contradictions, hypocrisies, and colonial advantages duly noted) and the have-nots dont. Stalinism and Maoism prefigured all this, but it emerges into a horrible clarity with the rise of religious fundamentalisms among the have-nots. It s a great time to be neutral! I used to subscribe to the materialist interpretation of human conflict that beneath the ideologies, you find competition for resources and territory. I was a jerk. When people are fanatical about their belief in a religion or ideology, theyll even act against their own material interests. This is idealism, in point of fact, standing in contrast to greedy self-interest. (Hold the phone, Ayn Rand. Im not joining your rallies either, and I dont feel like unpacking this one right now.) This is why idealism can be so much more dangerous than corrupt power seeking. Idealism cant be paid off. And when an idealism wants to force everybody to share its ideal, it can be implacable. Trust No One You may well ask, since I believe the Islamic warrior cells are probably the biggest threat to life and liberty since the German Nazis, why am I neutral? Why dont I support the war? Well, because I dont trust the Bush Administration to do this in the most humane way possible, and because it might be a really stupid move. I dont trust the Bushies to make the right tactical decisions. In World War II, the allies visited terror on the civilian populations of Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki. Whether these horrific actions were necessary to bring the war to an end is still debated today, but at least the war did come to an end. There was a nation state on the receiving end that could be brought to surrender. This is different. It isnt really a war. Its a situation. And its a situation where the wrong tactics would be a disaster, both ethically and in terms of our security. Bombs always seemed to me a blunt instrument for military actions that pretend to surgical precision. So I assert my democratic right to question the tactics of the Commander-in-chief, and I assert my existential right to declare my total uncertainty about what the right tactics are at this moment. If I were President I wouldnt have that luxury, but Im not, so I do. You too. Beyond these tactical considerations, I dont trust the Bushies motivations. I dont trust them to act in the best interests of humanity and America never mind a dissident weirdo like me. Already, the attack on whats left of our civil liberties (http://www.aclu.org/action/usa107.html) is under way. And the Pentagon is ripping us off for more money (Parenthetical rant Do you mean to tell me that $300 Billion or so a year in military expenditures is not enough money to go after an enemy consisting of a few tens of thousands of stateless desert dwellers supported by one guy worth less than Bill Gates dream home, plus whatever riches come from being on the shit end (poppy growing) of the heroin trade? We spend more on defense than the next five nations combined, but we cant use what we already have to go after an enemy the relative size of a mosquito? Does any thinking person, for one second, believe that our technology-heavy military is going to effectively eliminate a sneaky desert mosquito if it just has 40, or 80 or $100 billion. After telling us for twenty years that common folks cant throw money at problems, like not being able to pay rent or Doctors bills, were suddenly going to be made safe by giving the Pentagon and our failing intelligence agencies more money?) If history is any indicator, surely some time in the future, if were lucky enough to get there, we will confront evidence of Bushie neglect for our safety and freedom in this war. Just like the victims of Gulf War Syndrome or the people in the Washington Subway system who were the unwitting tests of an early bio-war experiment (http://csf.colorado.edu/mail/psn/jan98/0027.html) by our own military, we will get yet another opportunity to understand that whatever actions our government might take, its never about protecting us. Thou Doth Protest Too Much Ok. So since Im saying, bombs are a blunt instrument, why not join the anti-war protests. Well, at the risk of being obvious, somebody did just blow a fucking hole in New York City, and it is apparently the same bunch that had declared war on us. This is some serious shit. This one is different, and it behooves dissidents not to be predictable and reactive. Also, I have to admit the possibility that the Bushies might be choosing the best alternative in a Hobsons choice. I have to consider that nothing short of shutting down the Taliban regime in Afghanistan can begin to root out a genuine threat, and that nothing short of bombs can defeat the Taliban. Additionally, I have to admit that theres a pretty good chance that the Afghan people particularly the women will be better off if we defeat the Taliban with few civilian casualties. It would be difficult for the Afghanis to do much worse than the extended rule of the Taliban. Ironically, the role model here might be our old enemies, the Vietnamese, who finally invaded Cambodia to get rid of Pol Pot, whose horror show was spilling over into neighboring countries. A Rally For the Perplexed So here am I; neutral, stuck-in-neutral, neutered not even stuck in the middle with Bill and Al, but trapped in right field with Dubya and Herr Ashcroft busy making plans for his own version of the Spanish Inquisition, unable to join the antiwar protests with a clear conscience because they could be wrong, not able to fly the flag because I dont believe in nationalism, not able to endorse the war because it could be a dumb tactic leading to pointless deaths, unwilling to sacrifice my irony and foolish irreverence to the martial mood of the country or to a bizarre and pious import from the 13th Century. Do you feel like I do? Perhaps we neutrals should join together. We can hold public cry-ins. We can carry picket signs that say Not sure, Utterly confused, and Its just sad. Maybe not. Maybe its time to turn on, tune out, and drop way down deep inside ourselves, quietly, solemnly, into a private search for meaning. After all, if its all downhill from here if were all going down slow, it would be a lot more dignified to go down in a meditation posture, or clutching a Beckett play, that bellowing USA! USA! USA! like some WWF ape. I mean, many Americans responded to the situation by purchasing guns. Theyre gonna shoot em down some anthrax! Well, everybody has to find his or her comfort level, I guess. Not-knowing is true knowledge. Presuming to know is a disease. First realize that you are sick. Then you can move toward health Lao Tzu Posy 10/19/01 17:08:50 MDT

Our collective psyche has been damaged in this country. Fear has been the response that I have seen most out of people. Many do not know where to turn for answers or explanations for the tragedy. It is time to organize cooperative commuities for a changing world. We are not an island and those willing to get together with a mission of righteousness need to do so now. Mililtary response is inevitable, and we will be facing a different world. The go back to your normal lives belief is no longer a reality. The war is not only abroad and domestic but also in our own minds. You will have to face your greatest fears and act according to divine will to find inner peace. Let's use this tragedy as an opportunity to grow spiritually and really get to know one another. Dr. A rio rancho